Curse

Numa Pompilius · Jun 21, 2005, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Ooh!
Thanks!

OK, my take is that Lornars Pass exists exactly because the devs *wanted* people to be able to take a shortcut to get armor for their second, third etc character.

Lvl-requirements on armor could help some, but there's plenty of good armor available long before Droknars, and in any case a couple of superior runes are going to make any character pretty uber in Ascalon and Yaks Bend even with the-best-armor-money-can-buy-that's-still-appropriate-for-the-level armor.

I think one may just have to accept that battles aren't fair in the low level arenas.

arnansnow · Jun 21, 2005, 01:00 PM // 13:00

I agree that there should be level requirements so that low level characters can't get the 15k armor at level 10.

FrogDevourer · Jun 21, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Who cares about about low level arena? The fun has been polluted by twinking lamers right from the start, so there is no point in playing there. Who cares about those who buy high level armors. PvE will be a breeze for them, so what? They'll just spoil their own fun. The same stands for players for leech XP and drops from UW/FoW. They'll level a lot faster than by playing them game.

The real problem is not the armor or the low level arena. The true problem is that ANet doesn't wonder WHY veterans are rushing their alternate characters.

I have unlocked all the skills I need from 3/4 professions with my main character. I want to play another PvE (not roleplay, just standard PvE) toon with a different primary profession (say a water elementalist). Why do I have to bear with crappy starting skills (read: fire only) again? I have unlocked/bought/captured all the skills I need. Why I can't use them in PvE? I have captured elites in the very last mission. I can use them only to farm in the UW/FoW or in PvP. Wow... sooo exciting.

Why can't I get unlocked skills in all my PvE toons? Balance issue? Aren't skills supposed to be balanced? I used to be able to equip elites from level 1 in beta week ends (skill rings), and it felt perfectly fine for PvE. So where's the problem? Why am I forced to play with the crappy skills (and no elite) ANet wants me to use? Why can't I play PvE with rogue builds using unusual skill combinations. PvP is about competition, but PvE is much more enjoyable with cool/weird/whatever builds.

Where is the old beta GW which used to give more OPTIONS?!

Conclusion, my next character will be rushed to volcanic islands where I'll buy/capture what I need. THEN, and only then, I will go back to lowbie areas to play the game normally. I'm not taking shortcuts, I'm cheating to get some options and to play the game as I like, instead of being forced to play like the majority of lowbies.

Parn · Jun 21, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Alot of this maybe Sounds like Storage problems. Yeah ya need a buttload of stuff to get the best armor. Lil newbies don't have the resources. The storage from other their other characters do though. Whats the point of getting badass and going to the arena to say you Schooled some lil Lowbies? I'm always up for the challenge,
I love Lonars pass ducking and weaving through the all that. It's exciting something the rest of the game can't do for me right now. Yeah I tried the Desert and did all the missions up to that point, but damn can we say Posion Rules all. Thank god I have a shield that has quick recovery of posion. Hell I go with a Low level group through Lonars Just to show em they can't do it. Last couple days I am on trying to run through there it's a blast even if I don't make it. Farthest I made it was end of dreadnaughts where all the shadows are. I'll be on there again today doing the same thing. In the End I do agree it comes down to skills thats why I am trying to get there.

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

You should look at it this way...

They're level <10. So... uh... If it's a new character, do you REALLY think they'd get all the SHIZNORS skills by just heading for Droknar's?

Yeah... Right.

OMG, THEY'RE ASCENDED TO LEVEL 20 FROM LVL 5!!!!

Well, fight them in pvp. Do you think they'd have the know-how and smarts to fight with their cheaply earned skills and equipment?

I don't care who you are. I'll gladly fight your 3 hour lvl 20 ascended character with my W/N who's spent more than 200+ hours in actual guild combat, arena combat, and pve combat. Ah, you've got the character skills and big armor, whoopty doo!

Now let's see how much REAL SKILL YA GOT... [evil grin...

]

Your skill level can't POSSIBLY beat those who've spent a little time playing this game. The game is based on skill, not hours played, true, however, the one who's played longer may have the upper hand IF THEY KNOW just how their character's role in battle should be.

Hours played means you have upper end gear. Funny thing is, so does everyone else at your level so YOUR RAW SKILL will make or break your character.

Those of you who HAVE to run to Droknar's? Go ahead, I'll make sure me and my teammates may mulch your ass alive. Skill through experience is the REAL way to play this game...

Yeah yeah, you're real tough.

You also seem to be suffering from some misconceptions.
We're talking about running to Droknar's to get armor and skills. That's about all it can give you.
You're talking about ascending from lvl 5 to lvl 20. Errr what? What game are you playing?
Also, most of the runners who go to Droknar will then go back and keep playing the game, levelling normally. Some may choose to try to go outside and farm some of the lvl 24 mobs, but that's really tough to do at a low level without skills / items etc.

So, the scenario you're describing...doesn't really happen all that often.

Creston

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Who cares about about low level arena? The fun has been polluted by twinking lamers right from the start, so there is no point in playing there. Who cares about those who buy high level armors. PvE will be a breeze for them, so what? They'll just spoil their own fun. The same stands for players for leech XP and drops from UW/FoW. They'll level a lot faster than by playing them game.

The real problem is not the armor or the low level arena. The true problem is that ANet doesn't wonder WHY veterans are rushing their alternate characters.

I have unlocked all the skills I need from 3/4 professions with my main character. I want to play another PvE (not roleplay, just standard PvE) toon with a different primary profession (say a water elementalist). Why do I have to bear with crappy starting skills (read: fire only) again? I have unlocked/bought/captured all the skills I need. Why I can't use them in PvE? I have captured elites in the very last mission. I can use them only to farm in the UW/FoW or in PvP. Wow... sooo exciting.

Why can't I get unlocked skills in all my PvE toons? Balance issue? Aren't skills supposed to be balanced? I used to be able to equip elites from level 1 in beta week ends (skill rings), and it felt perfectly fine for PvE. So where's the problem? Why am I forced to play with the crappy skills (and no elite) ANet wants me to use? Why can't I play PvE with rogue builds using unusual skill combinations. PvP is about competition, but PvE is much more enjoyable with cool/weird/whatever builds.

Where is the old beta GW which used to give more OPTIONS?!

Conclusion, my next character will be rushed to volcanic islands where I'll buy/capture what I need. THEN, and only then, I will go back to lowbie areas to play the game normally. I'm not taking shortcuts, I'm cheating to get some options and to play the game as I like, instead of being forced to play like the majority of lowbies.

Excellent post. I applaud you.

Creston

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

You made some good points Frog.

Now to remain on topic. KEEP LORNARS, no level requirement for armor. Why would you want that? The more freedom there is the better. I mean the game is pretty linear as it is. Anyone who has gotten lost on a mission has a bad sense of direction.

Are all of you such sheep? That you HAVE to follow the prescribed path? Why not do something out of the ordinary path of events? Why follow what everyone else is doing, or what you are suppose to do? I hear these comments rushing to Droknars should not be allowed because of this and that, and you were not intended to have that armor yet, and it goes against the storyline. I make my own story that is dynamic based upon my chosen path. Who are you to tell me how to play my game? GW is great it is a free world governed only by limitations set forth by programers. I can go where I like do what I like. Do I cheat? No. Do I scam? No. I hold myself and my guild members to high standards. But if I wanted to be an ass I could, that is what is marvelous about a free society. To do bad or good is your choice. You just have to live with the consequences.

I got Draknors Armor at lvl 12, and am happy because of it. I do not abuse this armor, instead it is a benefit to those that party with me as we complete quests/missions. I use it to HELP people. Maybe this person has done this particular mission 30 times, and they say alright one more time if I dont do it this time I am never playing again. And guess what because of my more well equiped character we are able to more easily complete the mission. Remember what is good for my character is good for your character. Why? because were are in the same party. The better I preform the better off the team is. The better off you preform the better off the team is.

Lets say some guy had Draks armor and competed in Ascalon. He was partied with 3 random people. Maybe these 3 random people were real n00bs and had been bashed all day, and he came a long and they started winning reinstating their confidence in themselves. Because they were part of a winning team.

You are SO one sided. You see that just because you lost that something is wrong. Think about it for everyone that looses some one wins. I have been with teams that have sacrificed themselves to take out a Korean team, so that America could win the favor before. Yes, I did not win a Sigil, but I allowed for the American districts to have access in the Temple, which I then went and did fissure/UW runs.

Dax · Jun 21, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Who cares about about low level arena? The fun has been polluted by twinking lamers right from the start, so there is no point in playing there. Who cares about those who buy high level armors. PvE will be a breeze for them, so what? They'll just spoil their own fun. The same stands for players for leech XP and drops from UW/FoW. They'll level a lot faster than by playing them game.

Maybe the people who just bought the game and are playing for the first time, want to check out the arenas and who want to play it through the storyline.

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but there is another group of people in this massively multiplayer game who maybe doesn't want to jump ahead and perhaps enjoy the arenas.

I respect the argument of people who for whatever reason wants torun to the high level zone, but I don't hear much for the new players who want to play the game and enjoy it from start to finish.

Darkest Dawn · Jun 21, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

It's funny. Before I even knew wher Lorner's pass went to, or even what it was there fore, I accidently went out with my party of hanchies at lvl 14. I got crushed by an ice imp and two of those lumbering hulkish monsters(name eludes me). I was near the respawn area, lol didn;t get far at all, and I eventually killed those three. I decided after that to leave and found the correct passage to Kryta.(which I was looking for anyways!)

My second character I got to lvl 20 and then tried it both with henchies, and twice with a party of peeps. Each time I(we) got crushed until we met this guy who ran us through. It was awesome to watch him (W/Mo ascended) go all the way the first attempt with us. I gladly paid my plat for my share, and didn't feel I cheated since I was lvl 20, and I was going right back to the desert after getting my new armor.

Porkchop Sandwhiches · Jun 21, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn

I gladly paid my plat for my share

Man, has anyone else noticed that this only really started to become a problem since they nerfed farming and runes hardcore? Seems to me just most people are trying to make money some way or another, and running people to areas seems to be the new way. Heck, people were running newbies to Pilkens Sqaure from Old Ascalon for money last I was there.

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jun 21, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porkchop Sandwhiches

Heck, people were running newbies toPilkens Sqaure from Old Ascalon for money last I was there.

*scratches chin*
hmm now why didn't i think of that

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porkchop Sandwhiches

Man, has anyone else noticed that this only really started to become a problem since they nerfed farming and runes hardcore? Seems to me just most people are trying to make money some way or another, and running people to areas seems to be the new way. Heck, people were running newbies to Pilkens Sqaure from Old Ascalon for money last I was there.

Actually, I think taxi's are pretty cool. They're an innovative way to make money that really doesn't hamper anyone. you can make the argument that farming brought too much top tier loot onto the market, causing massive inflation. (ofcourse, Anet's attempt to nerf farming has done absolutely ZERO to alleviate that issue, so the nerf was useless)
How does taxi'ing hamper anyone? If some lvl 5 toon wants to be in Piken facing off against the lvl 7 Charr that are there, more power to him.

As for the comments "Well, I then HAVE TO party with people a lot lower level", that's just bunk.
You don't HAVE to party anywhere. If you see a lvl 12 guy join your party in Droknar's, kick him, or find another party.

Some people are treating this as if they're having a gun pressed against their head.

Creston

Ulric Druss · Jun 21, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

I'm not sure why this is such a problem for some people.

With my first character at lvl 17, I joined a group of 19's and a 20 and we made it to Droknar's Forge. It was a chaotic, nail-biting trip, with plenty of exciting moments and some great team play. I had an awesome time with this completely random group and wound up proving my worth on a number of occasions despite being the lowest level member as we worked our way down to the Forge.

Now, is this cheating, because I made it to the Forge at lvl 17, and "out of order" with the missions in the game?

If someone wants a higher character to run there for them, and that high level person wants to do it, then who is being hurt by this?

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 21, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2

I like this, it makes me chuckle.

That's funny your response made me scratch my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2

So, you are angry because someone has better armor than you, and is able to beat you because of it?

First off low lvl PvP is like the Fischer-Price of PvP. If you are so upset because someone is beating you because they have better armor, go get some better armor. It is not like it is some unattainable thing reserved for the godly. Armor becomes almost irrelevant in HoH or GvG, because the amount of damage that is being thrown around, and everyone is wearing the same thing pretty much. You do not gain anything from the arenas, except the experience of play. So, from you learned experience of play you learned that better armor wins!

HoH and GvG really are not material to what the person was talking about. You see there are arenas built for characters under a certain level. At a lower level a character in uber-high end armor vs. another low level character in the armor that they should have given their level the scales are unfairly balanced. To be honest it is so rampant I don't bother testing my skills in arenas now until I am past Droknar's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2

What you are essentially saying is. That it is not fair because someone beat you, and because you wanted to beat them.

Armor and weapons are simply tools. They assist you, but they do not do the job without you.

I got one for you... how about I give you a big wheel and I get a corvette and we see who can do the fastest 1/4 mile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2

Some people want to n00b bash. That is fine it is like hazing, or initiation. Something younger generations have not experienced as much of, because of censorship and political correctness. If you don't like being n00b bashed then don't enter in low lvl PvP arenas with pre-searing armor and expect to win.

How about you and your band of we can't win unless we N00b bash losers all go pick on people your own size.

asdar · Jun 21, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I'm for keeping Lornars open. I made it through at 17 fighting and it remains the funnest trip in the game for me.

I'm not even going to argue anymore about the Ascalon Arena. If it's not clear which choice is right concerning going back there with Drak armor then it's probably too late to learn the difference between right and wrong now.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 21, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

How many times should people have to finish the missions before it counts? Anything that bypasses pointless repetitive actions so that you can do what you want is good. Or should people all go back to menial factory labour that a mindless machine can do so much better because it's "more fulfilling" than enjoying yourself?

I go through the missions each time because I enjoy helping new players, enjoy really getting a feel for how the new skills work for the new class I am playing.

Dunno about you... but well... why do people eat every day?

FrogDevourer · Jun 21, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Maybe the people who just bought the game and are playing for the first time, want to check out the arenas and who want to play it through the storyline.

You have a point. These low level arenas were very good, and especially for newcomers to the game. The problem is that what should be PvP training ground and fun competition has been polluted by twinkers from day one. Players are not only using Forge armors, but also max damage weapons, very expensive runes (including Superior Vigor, or Superior Absorption) to ensure 90% victory. They are lamers who can't stand to lose and who are unable to win in a fair fight. In my opinion, these arenas should be removed from the game as they can be very frustrating for newbies. Instead, I would put various levels of PvP (beginner, average, elite) to make them more enjoyable whatever your GW experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulric Druss

With my first character at lvl 17, I joined a group of 19's and a 20 and we made it to Droknar's Forge. It was a chaotic, nail-biting trip, with plenty of exciting moments and some great team play. I had an awesome time with this completely random group and wound up proving my worth on a number of occasions despite being the lowest level member as we worked our way down to the Forge.

If you fought your way to the Forge, you deserve to be there. As far as I understand, the problem mentioned in this thread is the so called 'taxi' phenomenon. That is to say high level warriors who are sprinting through explorables to bring low level (as in <5) characters to the forge. These lowbies are the taxi cargo. They die asap, and use the external camera to watch the runner's movie.

Divinitys Creature · Jun 21, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

The arena problem is solved by not letting you in with certain armor then, they shouldn't stop you from running to droknars just because of that.

Night Daftshadow · Jun 21, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

My problem with these Droknar runners is that they made it difficult to find a group that is doing the quests at Beacon's Perch. My first character, I could join a group within seconds to do going to Kryta quest or any others. Now with my second character, hardly anyone is doing any quests besides going through Lomar's Pass. I had to team up with henchies unfortunately.

Since ANet cannot add mountains to block off the path to Droknar's from Beacon's Perch, may be they will since suprising things have happened with their recent patches, anyway or may be they can add more of those annoying worms or add 3-4 of those giant worms that you see at the desert. now, these droknar runners will fall on their @ss and die before even making it past these worms. and they should also add those ice golems where the worms are at so that they can cast ice prison or whatever spell that causes slowness. this will take care of the problem.

i guess a more user friendly version to decrease this droknar running just to get better armor is to include a level requirement to pursue and wear armor. for example, since you will be level 20 once reaching droknar's forge by playing all the way through honestly, you have to be a level 20 to buy armor at droknar's.

OT:yesterday, i ran from temple of ages all the way to fishermn's haven and then to sanctum clay. it was very long run but worth it. after completing the False God's quest at TOA, i decided to explore since i never been to the area between TOA to sanctum cay. the scenery is wonderful! it was funny how i made it to sanctum cay with a party of 8/6; all henchies. but that's where i stopped, currently i am doing all of the missions that lead you to sanctum cay

FrogDevourer · Jun 21, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Daftshadow

My problem with these Droknar runners is that they made it difficult to find a group that is doing the quests at Beacon's Perch. My first character, I could join a group within seconds to do going to Kryta quest or any others. Now with my second character, hardly anyone is doing any quests besides going through Lomar's Pass. I had to team up with henchies unfortunately.

You do realize that people who are using taxis won't bother playing in PuGs anyhow, right? It's much faster to use henchmen, to be powerleveled by a lvl20 guildie, or just to use a guildie as a taxi to LA. By closing the south portal of B.P, the only thing you'll get is an empty outpost.

Curing symptoms may look like a solution.
Curing the sickness is the solution.